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New XP, no traction in snow

129K views 282 replies 51 participants last post by  richb 
#1 ·
We have a brand new 2014 ranger XP for use at a cabin. We have not put tracks on as the road is usually groomed. Prior to grooming and in long, steeping driveway, with soft snow maybe 12 inches we are sliding all over even in all wheel drive and low gear.

Are we doing something wrong?

Thank you all in advance!
 
#80 ·
That's what I meant LOL. The Hillard system is just either engaged or in freewheel from what I understand from the manual. But when its engaged it spins both front wheels together regardless of speed so its essentially a locked differential as well correct?

I like the Ranger, and don't have to deal with ice, just mostly snow and mud. However I would think in mud it would slide out of control as well but my friend's machine didn't. He also stated this afternoon that without the sanding machine in the bed it is very light in the back end, but he said he hasn't had it spin out of control on him yet, although he doesn't push his machine either due to having the plow on it. That may be different if he didn't have the plow and was trying to go faster than 15-20mph with it. I'll try and think to ask him to try it out without the plow on and see what it does.

Thanks everyone.
 
#82 · (Edited)
But if the gear ratios are different front and rear, it would tear up the transfer case in a truck, does the Ranger have a transfer case or how's the system work? I've heard people say the Ranger has a separate transmission unlike the Yamaha Rhino which is just a part of the bottom end of the engine.

Maybe I'm over thinking this coming from working on truck 4WD systems LOL.
There is no transfer case as such like in a truck. There is just an additional output shaft that drives the front drive shaft consecutively with the rear drive.
The front axles turn constantly with the wheels and are attached to the driven half of a sprague clutch inside the differential, one for each axle.
The drive shaft turns the drive part of the sprague clutches all the time.
When the AWD is not turned on the rollers in the clutches freewheel. When you push the AWD button a magnet inside a ring energizes and puts a drag on the roller cage and pulls it into position to preload the rollers to lock up when the front axles go slower than the carrier. Each side locks up independently and will unlock independently when you turn the wheels for steering.
I think Polaris says they will lock up within 1/8th of a turn or whatever, but at low speeds the lockup is almost instantaneous because the rollers are already in contact.

When you think you might get into a position to need AWD it is better to go ahead and push the button so the roller cage will be in position for faster lockup. If you wait the rear tires will need to rotate farther before lockup because the roller cage has to rotate a few degrees after the magnet is energized before the AWD will lock in.
Also, when you go from forward to reverse it takes longer to lock up because the roller cage has to travel twice as far to lockup.
 
#85 ·
Ahh thanks for the info, I was under the impression it had a separate transfer case type setup like a truck, now with that info it is possible that differentials may have different ratios, and on ice it can definitely cause a huge problem, however i would still think it could happen with any of the machines if you aren't careful.

So really, unless that electrical connection is broken to the magnets that operate that roller cage there isn't much to fail, unlike the Yamaha Rhino which has basically a sliding set of cogs that engage the 4WD and the diff lock which can get stuck and fail to engage, engage only partially, or get stuck in the engaged position and screw up a lot of stuff in the process.

Thanks for clarifying.
 
#83 ·
Crossways Rangers

Just my 2 cents, I have no reason why, or no solution for the Rangers wanting to swap ends. I have a 2011 800XP and I have had it come around on me. I was driving on narrow dirt roads in snow and ice, but there was also tire tracks from pickup trucks in the snow. With the width being different, it was hard to stay in the middle, which was best, but I always slid to one side or the other. The machine was constantly weaving from one side to the other, and you had to be ready to stop when it came around. This was driving at speeds of 10 to 15 mph, at slower speeds it didn't seem to bother. It helped a lot when I put tire chains on all 4 wheels, but you still couldn't go much faster. In an open fields with no tracks, it didn't seem to want to swap ends.
One thing I did notice in the snowy field, was that even if your had the machine in 2wd or turf mode, when you hit the throttle hard one or both of the front wheels would spin. I guess there's enough of a drag in these clutches to spin a tire or two!
 
#87 ·
I had a blast on mine today. Wait, there was not any snow, just hard frozen ground. Also, a balmy 20 degrees. :)
 
#88 ·
LOL, if I ever can get another machine it will be a Ranger, and I'll be putting a cab on mine LOL, it is miserable trying to plow when its cold outside, makes plowing completely unbearable and if it happens to be windy its even worse. Problem is those cabs add a considerable amount of weight so there would be trade offs, but I would deal with the extra weight to have a warm area to be when working LOL.
 
#89 ·
I have a full windshield and a homemade clear vinyl back window. I just bundled up and also stopped to lop some branches here and there.
 
#90 ·
I'm gonna take a stab in the dark & bet the 800XP's were the first with the fly by wire throttle.

I'm also gonna take a shot & say that's where is issue is.

That's why the 700's didn't have the problem.

The whole thing is in the programming of the throttle. At 'speed' it's not letting the AWD lock in. No sensors or anything to it, just takes the ground speed, eng rpm, throttle position & whatever else into account.

To further the bet, I'll bet Polaris knows the whole thing, know the potential for problem & could fix it less than 5min of being hooked up to a lap top
 
#93 · (Edited)
If the front & rear axles rotate at different rates by design, the reason is likely to keep the front axles from engaging on high traction surfaces, in 4WD, even when are things like air pressure differences and tread wear differences between front and rear tires.
On low traction surfaces this design, to my simple thinking, would seem to have little impact on maneuverability since slippage is occurring to a degree that trivializes the axle ratio difference.
To me the axle ratio difference is a red herring.

I don't have much experience in snow on an ATV, and absolutely none in my Ranger 900. Perhaps under 10 driving hours on my Sportsman 700's in the snow.
I can say this much, however: Snow isn't just snow. I have driven in snow so deep that it was flowing over the front rack and I had total maneuverability. I'd call it magical, even. And in the exact same area in the exact same winter I drove in snow half as deep and could not make it 20 feet. The former type of snow was 10 degree, uber fluffy, happy fun snow. The latter was low 30's, corn, heavy, angry snow. And I winched myself from tree to tree just to get back to the shop.

That we have differing views on snow related performance isn't surprising considering the variability of the medium. Id even suggest that the variability between Ranger models, traction control systems on them, and driver skill is an order of magnitude less than that of snow itself.

Troubleshooting 101, step 1: Identify the problem. Step 2: Identify a control/norm. I'd say that based on these threads, we have not yet completed step 2.
 
#95 ·
travellerw. i tried to PM you but I am to new. so here goes.
read your posts on the 900's not doing well in snow and was wondering the proper way to set the toe. at ride height or jacked up with no pressure on the front? I also have had bad experience in 14" of snow. Going in low the pattern behind the ranger you could see and feel the awd kicking in and out there was a spin then hump of snow about every 12" and the sledders i was pulling didn't like it. put it in high and run 15+ mph and it smoothed out some. this is my first ranger and I have had several arctic cat four wheelers that were awesome in the snow compared to this 900 but I have had it just over a month and have some getting used to it to do. Thanks for the help
 
#97 ·
Ok, got my buddy to pull his snow plow off his Ranger XP900 the other day, got it out on an icy road, and in AWD, 2WD, and Turf Mode, it stayed straight and tracked just fine, only got up to about 30mph, but it didn't slide out of control or anything. I was extremely light on the throttle, but when I stabbed the go fast pedal it wanted to slide out sideways. Otherwise it wasn't bad at all. The AWD engaged very smoothly, and I'm wondering if the people having the issues if their AWD is kind of hanging a bit and not engaging due to the rear wheels spinning too fast. Thought there was something about the AWD not engaging in certain situations where the rear axle is spinning too fast to allow the front axle to engage?

Anyhow, I experienced a little bit of the problem but that was only on really heavy acceleration on ice. Otherwise it didn't do bad at all. Then again its not my machine so I wasn't running it too hard either.
 
#100 ·
This is something I've experienced on several different types of vehicles not just ATV's, many systems say if the rear tires are spinning do not attempt to engage 4WD. I'm guessing the Ranger has a failsafe in that it won't engage the front drive if the rear axle is spinning. Don't know for sure if its true but that's kind of what I was feeling driving my buddy's Ranger the other day on ice. The rear tires were spinning and the front wouldn't engage at all. But under very light throttle it would engage and be on its way, I don't know this system seems pretty goofy to me. If I remember correctly this is one reason I stayed away from Polaris products to begin with, the goofy 4WD system design.
 
#99 ·
Same problem with my Ranger 800 full size when I try to climb a hill on the trail with 10" of snow. I also have 5 cement blocks in the back box. Fish tails and spins all the way up. Maybe this is why the Manuel says to not climb a incline more than 15 degrees. On flat roads no problem but cant go up any hills. I am very disappointed in the performance going up hill. I have a moose plow on it and it plows with out even spinning a tire. Any one have any advice for me here in north east Wisconsin ?
 
#101 ·
5 to 10 inches coming by Sunday afternoon. Will try and see
how the 570 reacts again.
 
#102 ·
Wow a lot of bad info here and a lot of good info too. I also have a 2013 ranger 900XP and yes it is very squirrely in the snow. Now I know how the Hilliard drive system works, by the rear spinning faster than the front it locks the front axle, with that being said the rear tires will always have to spin faster than the front to make the front axle engage right? So now here is my thought on it, since the 900 is a rear engine and has more weight at the rear it has more traction? Now with more traction it is harder to spin the rear end and pushing more and the snow is loading up against the front not letting front end drive to pull holding it back causing the sliding out. After a snow ride the other day through a 1’ to 1 ½’ feet of snow for over 20kms I started to get the hang of it. I found that fresh untracked snow was good under full power in high, snow justa flying but under cruising it was all over the place and in low gear it wasn’t as bad but than one is only doing 10 to 15mph. I’m also an avid sledder and the other thing that happens, the same with the sled, when you try to follow someone’s fresh track, the untracked snow tries to pull you away from the fresh track throwing you out of the groove so you’re always fighting it to stay on the track. I also have no sway bar so that surly adds to the fun when fishtailing. LOL
I do not have the EPS and wonder too if that has anything to do with it, I have heard the big draw back to the EPS system is that it is a little slow reacting, mostly when it is to come back to center???
I have about 40hrs and 600kms on mine and have been driving it like I stole it with no troubles.
One last word on driving through deep snow is that these are not snowmobiles and the clutching and belt take a beating with the extra heavy load the snow puts on them, just ask the 4x4ers that play in the snow with their trucks, loves to burn up clutches and blow up automatics.
"I don't think there is a driveline problem, its just the nature of the beast"
 
#104 ·
Dirty this whole thread is about deep unpacked or loose snow from what I understand has been mostly posted about. On packed snow or ice I have had no troubles. As for my 4x4 in a foot or more snow it drives the same way, its all over the place fish tailing and when it has been rutted up its even worse. I live in Northern BC where its snow for 6 months out of the year and I know my truck would never go where my ranger would go but that is also an issue of tires too. Stock tires on my ranger and basic MT tires on my truck. Now get a 6500lbs truck stuck out in the middle of no where in deeper snow that turns to slick ice under your tires first spin. Been there done that, good thing for chains and a winch. The Ranger, a shovel and a push and a tree bow or two.

In the long run if your out having fun that's all that matters, as for the rangers trouble in snow? Hard to say? I know my 900xp will always go where a 4x4 truck will go, and be faster and smoother and cheaper to beat on. :) LOL
 
#107 ·
New owner of a 2014 xp900 here and thought I would chim in. I don't have a lot to add other then my experience is pretty much the same here. We only got about an inch of snow here in oklahoma, but the road leading to my house is steep and snow packed from traffic and I was all over the place trying to get up the hill. I did notice that when I would just give it a lot of throttle, you could feel the fronts engaging and it would really take off, still would get a bit squirrely but they would definitely engage with a lot of throttle. Not really liking the way that works, but guess I will need to get use to it.
 
#108 · (Edited)
I just went out and jacked my ranger off the ground and put it in awd and just like the video on page 7, the rear wheels turn almost 1-1/2 turns for ever 1 turn of the front wheels. Beings that is how these things are setup, the back end will always try to out run the front end. Least now I know why the rear wants to come around. If a person was to run a smaller tire in the rear and a larger tire in the front, that would help equal the turning ratio.
EDIT:
Something else to consider also is the fact that when the rear wheels slip and the fronts kick in at a slower speed, they are actually holding back the forward motion that the rears are trying to create, almost like power braking scenario. It would have been better to have the fronts turning faster then the backs IMHO.
 
#109 ·
I did some serious snow plowing with my 570 today. Around 10 inches of fluffy snow. Cold and windy temps. On my drivewayI did a couple of passes and dropped the air pressure in the back to 6lbs and threw in sand log. That helped. I got stuck in the street twice in the deep packed city snow on the edge. High centered. This thing won't drive in the snow like my old 2011 Polaris Sportman 400 atv. My atv would hammer it throught everything. Not this, as a turtle would beat me. I figured out to stay in 4x4 in low and drive max speed of 20. Anything above or try to mash the pedal it will get squirrerly and not go any faster. Plowing the deep stuff was good. I think my old atv would have struggled in it.
 
#110 ·
Snow performance

Our roads here have completely drifted shut. My furnace quit working and the repair guy couldnt get down the road. I drove across a field in a completely stock 900 XP to go get the guy and bring him to the house. The Ranger definitely saved my butt today. My 4wd pickup was helpless. That said, this thing really did feel like it was pretty out of control and I spun around 2 different times. First time, I blame on speed and me not knowing what the machine would do (just bought it this summer). I'd like to make this thing a little more capable in the snow without spending a ton of money on new tires. Would adding weight help the machine out at all? How much? I'd probably just strap some sand bags in the bed. Anything else that a guy could do to help the machine out a little? The Ranger was awesome and would go through any size drift I wanted to run through, just didn't have much control, especially on the harder-packed and icy stuff.
 
#111 ·
I'd like to make this thing a little more capable in the snow without spending a ton of money on new tires. Would adding weight help the machine out at all? How much? I'd probably just strap some sand bags in the bed. Anything else that a guy could do to help the machine out a little? The Ranger was awesome and would go through any size drift I wanted to run through, just didn't have much control, especially on the harder-packed and icy stuff.
I think the cheap solution would be chains on the rears and weight. I just ordered a set from ebay for $58.00 shipped.
I did some calculations and in order to make the front tires travel the same distance as the rears do in one revolution, you would have to have 31" tires on the front, anything smaller will increase more slippage of the rears. The best I can tell is the backs turn 1 full turn to each 3/4 turn of the fronts. So the rear tires will always be trying to out run the fronts, but chains and weight will definitely help tame the rears.
 
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