Polaris Ranger Forum banner
1 - 20 of 29 Posts

·
Registered
Joined
·
38 Posts
Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Hello All,

I'm probably opening up a can of worms with this one.

I've recently purchased a 2012 Polaris Ranger. The previous owner (who previously owned the Polaris dealership) had put on 120 hours on the machine. The batteries were replaced in 2018 (US XC2-12V 155ah). Based on the math, the machine was only seeing on average 15hrs/year. Which means these batteries have probably seen under 50 charges. They are showing static voltages around 12.8V when charged. I've recently did a cleaning and topping up of the batteries. I have already put on 15hrs on this machine since getting it last month.

Now, I know there are a TON of caveats but I'm wondering if this seems like reasonable amount of range. Keep in mind, I live in a extremely mountainous area. I did a loop today which consists of two distinctly different terrains. One is a big climb on a old mining road (part 1), the other is a long descent on fairly smooth dirt road with a little climb at the end (part 2).

Main details:
59 degree F (15C)
Light winds & Sunny
10am
1 Passenger (170lbs), no cargo, no accessories

Loop Pt 1:
Base Elevation: 2191 ft (667.9m)
Top of Climb: 3736 ft (1139m)
Distance: 3.41 miles (5.5km)
Average 5% slope (8 degrees) w/ some area of very rough terrain exceeding 35% (20 degree)
Turf mode, Max Range - with a small 1/4mile section of really steep terrain (AWD, Low Range)
That takes me down to about 50% on the SOC

Loop Pt 2:
Starting Elevation 3736 ft (1139m)
Ending Elevation 2191 ft (667m) with a dip down to 1800ft (550m)
Distance: 8.2 miles (13.2km)
Only Turf mode, Max Range
Down to 20-30% on the SOC

Total Distance is 11.6 miles (18.7km)
1 hr of drive time on the hour meter


I'm certainly impressed with the terrain capability of the machine. I'm not sure if I should expect more range than this given the terrain with FLA batteries. Thinking about switching over to Lithium but unless you folks think my batteries are weak, I don't think the current available 280ah will provide enough range for my exploration needs in my locale, as I would need to hit around 40 miles (60km) range with about 12 miles of hard uphill (from 2000' to 7000').

For the most part, I primarily use the ranger on a small farm, which I use 10% in a day's worth of use and it is fabulous for that.

Would love your thoughts on this!

I also did make a video of the loop, which I will link when I get the video together and online.

Thanks!
 

·
Registered
2015 Polaris Ranger EV
Joined
·
4 Posts
Hi Sch,

Your experience matches what I got, 14 miles per charge on rough trails with new lead acid batteries. I bought my Ranger from an online auction. It was from a rental fleet. Beat up with 375 hours with a new set of USA FLA batteries. I never got 30 miles per charge but I did not try a long trip on pavement with 30 psi. I switched to an 10.5kWh Atlas ESS LFP battery. I found my consumption on rough trails was approx 295 watt/hr per mile, with 7psi in the tires. So my range is 36 miles per charge. Range will increase with higher tire pressure and better trails (less rolling resistance). Also, the personality of the Ranger changes when you loose 460 pounds of lead! You should definitely change to LFP.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
38 Posts
Discussion Starter · #3 · (Edited)
So here's the video of the loop I discussed in the first post. I overlaid what the SOC reading was, so you can always see where the battery life is at. The video is about an hour long, but I think the part that demonstrates the capability of the ranger is from 11:30 to 21:10. It's probably approximately 1.5 miles with a vertical of 1300 ft.

 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,606 Posts
I can’t watch a hour long video of riding. Realistically in the real world you will get 20-25, maybe close to 30. There are so many variables. Weight,terrain, tire size, load, temperature, mud, soft dirt hard dirt.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
39 Posts
So here's the video of the loop I discussed in the first post. I overlaid what the SOC reading was, so you can always see where the battery life is at. The video is about an hour long, but I think the part that demonstrates the capability of the ranger is from 11:30 to 21:10. It's probably approximately 1.5 miles with a vertical of 1300 ft.

Polaris Ranger EV Realistic Range
Excellent Video. Will help to a lot of peoples.

With above 20Kw Capacity of Lithium Battery, the maximum i ride was about 35 miles, in very muddy road.
I think i got 25-30% present left.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
38 Posts
Discussion Starter · #6 ·
Excellent Video. Will help to a lot of peoples.

With above 20Kw Capacity of Lithium Battery, the maximum i ride was about 35 miles, in very muddy road.
I think i got 25-30% present left.
Thanks - I was thinking of you when I was posting this so glad to hear your feedback. Hoping to transition to Lithium in the nearish future, so I can post a side-by-side video comparison for performance & range. I'm just not convinced that 280ah will be enough for my location.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
39 Posts
Thanks - I was thinking of you when I was posting this so glad to hear your feedback. Hoping to transition to Lithium in the nearish future, so I can post a side-by-side video comparison for performance & range. I'm just not convinced that 280ah will be enough for my location.
Today, after i have more knowledge, i would not suggest to change to Lifepo4. I would change to NMC.
I dont need the life time of 2000 Cycles. i am doing about 1.5 charging cycles per week, 52 weeks in year, the meaning the cells have life time of over 15 years.

NMC have 1000 Cycles, it would be better choice.
Also NMC is much more preferable by EV industry.

For example :
Lead Acid [email protected] (8x12V-155Ah) (maybe 170Ah effective capacity), weight of 440Kg (970Lbs).
64 Cells Lifepo4 [email protected], have 400Ah (20.4KW) and weight of 230Kg.
56 Cells of 135Ah NMC Total [email protected] (27.5KW), weight only 130Kg.

So with NMC I gain less weight, amazing range, and cheaper price.
This the Cell i would choose in the future:

Just for general information, for the LifePo4 i paid about 3,550USD for 67 cells. which more expensive compare to NMC.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
38 Posts
Discussion Starter · #9 ·
For example :
Lead Acid [email protected] (8x12V-155Ah) (maybe 170Ah effective capacity), weight of 440Kg (970Lbs).
64 Cells Lifepo4 [email protected], have 400Ah (20.4KW) and weight of 230Kg.
56 Cells of 135Ah NMC Total [email protected] (27.5KW), weight only 130Kg.
So two questions:
1) If I ran my FLA down to 20% on the state of charge (I know not the best thing for FLA) would that suggest that I've used (310*80%) 248 Ah?

2) Are Voltronix basing their numbers off of effective capacity comparisons (i.e. Voltronix has stated that their 9kWh (180Ah) is equivalent to the FLA batteries in terms of range - is that based off DOD of 50%?)
 

·
Super Moderator
Joined
·
480 Posts
Another difference between FLA and Li is that you can routinely discharge Li to 20% with minimum impact on longevity. I suspect that Voltronix bases their range estimates off of full discharge just like all the other FLA battery and Li providers do. It is up to the owner to decide if they want to stay within the limits that best preserve the life of the battery pack.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
39 Posts
So two questions:
1) If I ran my FLA down to 20% on the state of charge (I know not the best thing for FLA) would that suggest that I've used (310*80%) 248 Ah?

2) Are Voltronix basing their numbers off of effective capacity comparisons (i.e. Voltronix has stated that their 9kWh (180Ah) is equivalent to the FLA batteries in terms of range - is that based off DOD of 50%?)
The FLA is have a different way to calulate. cause all the Lead battries, are rated 20H.

For example :
US BATTERY 12V 155Ah (https://www.usbattery.com/products/12-volt-batteries/us-12vrx-xc2/)

The 155Ah capacity, verified for 20 Hours consumption. (kind of cheating in my opinion)

When we know our range in Ranger EV with FLA battery is about 1 Hour driver. the meaning we consum the all the Energy in 1Hour.

1) By the Datasheet of the factory (Link), we can see that in 1 Hour we can get only 92Ah (100% depth of discharge / DOD).
2) We know that below 40-35% energy, the Ranger will not drive good, because the low Voltage of the system (Less than 47V). So actually we can use 60% DOD.
3) I am ignoring cycle life time in this calculation



24760



So the Right Calculation for FLA in our Ranger :

8 Battery of 12V 155Ah(20H)

4S2P configuration = 48V 310Ah([email protected]%DOD) -> 48V 184Ah([email protected]%DOD) -> 48V 110Ah([email protected]%DOD)
 

·
Super Moderator
Joined
·
480 Posts
ASTROPOWER: Really clear explanation, thanks. An ampere is a unit of measure of the rate of electron flow (as in power) and is probably not the best "gauge" for our use because the hours of flow are set at specific points so that engineers can size the battery to the power requirement of their application. The ability of a battery (or pack) to store energy is measured in Wh (Watt Hours). It is easier, I think, to look at a pack as having 10,000 Watt Hours of storage then determine how many Wh have been consumed during a period of use.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
38 Posts
Discussion Starter · #13 ·
Thanks for the clarity Astropower and JackA. If I am understanding correctly, based on AP's calculations, the stock FLA battery would actually be 110Ah/ 5.2kWh?

So can we assume that Voltronix smallest current package (9kWh/187.5Ah) is actually approximately 7.2kWh/150Ah (assuming 80% DOD for LPF batteries?).

I'd really love to be able to do a comparison video in the future with some LFP to see real world comparison rather than just the math :)
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
38 Posts
Discussion Starter · #14 ·
Today, after i have more knowledge, i would not suggest to change to Lifepo4. I would change to NMC.
I dont need the life time of 2000 Cycles. i am doing about 1.5 charging cycles per week, 52 weeks in year, the meaning the cells have life time of over 15 years.

NMC have 1000 Cycles, it would be better choice.
Also NMC is much more preferable by EV industry.

For example :
Lead Acid [email protected] (8x12V-155Ah) (maybe 170Ah effective capacity), weight of 440Kg (970Lbs).
64 Cells Lifepo4 [email protected], have 400Ah (20.4KW) and weight of 230Kg.
56 Cells of 135Ah NMC Total [email protected] (27.5KW), weight only 130Kg.

So with NMC I gain less weight, amazing range, and cheaper price.
This the Cell i would choose in the future:

Just for general information, for the LifePo4 i paid about 3,550USD for 67 cells. which more expensive compare to NMC.
Do you have any thoughts on thermal management of these batteries and if there is a company that could make custom cases?

Best
Scott
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
39 Posts
Do you have any thoughts on thermal management of these batteries and if there is a company that could make custom cases?

Best
Scott
BMS should handle the Charger/Discharge and Temperature management.

What your specific concern?
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
39 Posts
I suppose I was thinking about overheating issues during prolonged use, not necessarily on the charging end of things.

What do think of these NMC batteries? 48V, 60Ah Li-ion Battery (NMC, SOFT PACK ABL-048060P)
The Ranger EV consume 480A peak from my testing. and about 140-180A in High Mode flat road.

1. You need battery pack which can handle this peak current without issue.
2. You need Waterproof + Shockproof pack. for handle safe as possible all the various road / rock / mud / water conditions for which the Ranger is intended.
3. Many offer NMC as 48V with 13 cells in Series (3.7V*13), which is not good, cause the voltage too low. need to search for 51.8V (52V= 3.7V*14).

The pack in the link provide only 30Ah and 60Ah peak. and the soft pack not suitable for the EV needs.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
38 Posts
Discussion Starter · #18 ·
The Ranger EV consume 480A peak from my testing. and about 140-180A in High Mode flat road.

1. You need battery pack which can handle this peak current without issue.
2. You need Waterproof + Shockproof pack. for handle safe as possible all the various road / rock / mud / water conditions for which the Ranger is intended.
3. Many offer NMC as 48V with 13 cells in Series (3.7V*13), which is not good, cause the voltage too low. need to search for 51.8V (52V= 3.7V*14).

The pack in the link provide only 30Ah and 60Ah peak. and the soft pack not suitable for the EV needs.
Brilliant Thanks!
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
518 Posts
The Ranger EV consume 480A peak from my testing. and about 140-180A in High Mode flat road.

1. You need battery pack which can handle this peak current without issue.
2. You need Waterproof + Shockproof pack. for handle safe as possible all the various road / rock / mud / water conditions for which the Ranger is intended.
3. Many offer NMC as 48V with 13 cells in Series (3.7V*13), which is not good, cause the voltage too low. need to search for 51.8V (52V= 3.7V*14).

The pack in the link provide only 30Ah and 60Ah peak. and the soft pack not suitable for the EV needs.
So with this said what is the max amps that the OEM wet cell pack can supply as new? And what would the Voltronixs kit supply? The reason I ask is that I’ve always assumed these carts cut out on steep inclines because they can’t access enough amps to feed the motor under these high demand conditions. Problem gets more common as batteries start to age. Based on what you’re saying I’m wondering if the lithium packs won’t do this?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
39 Posts
So with this said what is the max amps that the OEM wet cell pack can supply as new? And what would the Voltronixs kit supply? The reason I ask is that I’ve always assumed these carts cut out on steep inclines because they can’t access enough amps to feed the motor under these high demand conditions. Problem gets more common as batteries start to age. Based on what you’re saying I’m wondering if the lithium packs won’t do this?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro
FLA have minumum 2C Discharge rate and about 5-10C Peak current. (For example this battery)

Rated 150Ah (20H)
Max Discharge 1200A (1200/150=8C)

24927


The meaning that the Ranger can draw from the 8 FLA packs 450-500A easily when FLA are new.

My Lifepo4 cells are rated to 3C. Nominal capacity is about 440Ah, and 3C will be 1,320A. But the limits are in the BMS, which limited the current to 700A. (dual BMS, each one is 350A)

I dont have the specifications of Voltronixs. So i cannot answer that.

The Ranger EV motor is rated 7.8-8.3KW continus power (±170A), and 22KW Peak power (±450A). So we must make sure the battery system (new Lithium) can supply this demend. no problem for FLA.
 
1 - 20 of 29 Posts
Top