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Discussion Starter #1
Well, after almost two years, I'm back with the latest update from the events that were unfolding in this thread:

http://www.rangerforums.net/forum/polaris-ranger-diesel/8464-hard-shift-idling-problem.html

The last thing I posted from that thread was that I was taking the machine back to the dealer to address the shifting issue. It took a couple weeks to get the Ranger back, but it did indeed shift fine when I got it back. In fact, it worked well for over a year, and I was thinking it was going to be a happy ending, but a 2-3 months ago things started going downhill as the shifting problem arose yet again.

It started as a very minor stickiness in shifting, and I though it was just my mind playing tricks on me due to the past experiences. But as of two weeks ago the machine was once again impossible to shift when running. When I turned it off it would shift fine, and it would also shift fine when it was first started, but once you had driven it any distance (even a few feet), you could not change gears in any way aside from turning the machine off.

So back to the dealer it went yet again...

Two days ago I got a call from the dealer that the problem was that the shift cable had gone bad, but they could shift it just fine, and for $150 they would replace the cable and all would be well. I suspected that the cable going out was just due to the repeated force over the past couple months trying to shift the thing, and told them that they needed to drive the machine around the parking lot for a few minutes and they would see that it becomes impossible to shift. Yesterday they called back and confirmed that this was indeed the case, and asked my permission to take apart the transmission to see what was wrong.

Today I got a call that pretty much the entire transmission was shot, and that I could either pay $1800 to have it rebuilt, or $2300 to have a whole new transmission installed. There were no further "kits" from Polaris that they could install, and the best they could do was to send a memo to Polaris telling them about my issue.

I told them to hold off on ordering the new transmission until I had a chance to talk to Polaris, and so I called Polaris this afternoon. After 20 minutes or so of describing the problems I've had, and where things stand now with $2500+ in charges, I was basically told that the machine is out of warranty and that I'm going to have to eat the cost myself.

After dropping $12,000 on this Ranger, the prospect of paying another $2300 for a new transmission, $150 for a cable, and who-knows how much for labor has left me with a rather sour taste in my mouth.

I've treated this machine very well, and there's no reason why the transmission should be shot. We have no hills, I don't go around flooring it, and it has hardly ever had any kind of load attached to it. Aside from the transmission, it is in excellent condition. The dealer has said as much themselves.

This Ranger has been back to the shop three times in three years for the same issue. It's an issue that Polaris obviously knows about, and that affects many machines, since they have shipped these "clutch kits" out to the dealers for models sitting on the showroom floor. I know this because the dealer mentioned it on one of the previous occasions when I brought it in. And the numerous replies in the thread linked above are evidence that I am far from the only person who has been affected by this.

There is no way that this shifting issue is not related to the transmission damage. Being billed $2500+ in charges for a $12,000 machine that is less than three years old, for an issue that is the direct result of a known problem, is unacceptable in my book.

But what options do I have? When I last posted, I had only paid $4000 paid on the Ranger. Now it is completely paid off, and I am really regretting having given up the other $8000. I feel like I should have cut my losses at $4000 and taken the hit on my credit rating. Now I have a $12,000 paperweight unless I put another $2500 into this transmission, and the new transmission only comes with a 30-day warranty. So if the the whole problem repeats itself a year from now, I guess I'll have to fork out another $2500.

$2500 here, $2500 there... pretty soon you're talking real money.

If you were in this situation, what would you do?
 

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I feel your pain. I have a 2010 800 Ranger. Engine out for second time in 12 months. Probably won't fix it this time. Can't see putting another 4000.00 into it. Been offered 2000.00 as is. Probably will take that and buy a 900 or a Yamaha Viking.
Good Luck
 

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Discussion Starter #3
Got a call from the dealer this afternoon. They sent in a request for a goodwill warranty on the transmission, which Polaris promptly denied. I called an 888 number I was given for Polaris, and the customer support just kept repeating that "they" (the warranty division) denied the request, and there was nothing the customer support division could do about it.

I asked for a number to the warranty division. Customer support doesn't know it. Apparently there is no "company directory" at this company. I asked to speak to a supervisor... get put on hold for 10 minutes, then I am told that no supervisors are available, but one will call me back in 1 or 2 business days. Basically, it's the runaround game at this point. Try to confuse and frustrate me into giving up.

I told the dealer to hold off on the repair until I had a chance to talk to Polaris, but at this rate it's unknown how long before I can reach someone there. If I eat this bill, I'll be in over $15,000 on this Ranger, with a constant nagging in the back of my head that it's going to crap out again. If I don't eat the bill, I have a $12,000 paperweight.

I don't have it in me to get it fixed and then sell it to someone, knowing the issues it has had.

What's the difference between Polaris and a casino?

At the casino, at least you expect to lose.

What recourse does the little guy have against a faceless corporation and all the bureaucracy?

The Polaris CEO took home $8.6M in 2013, and $31M in 2012.

This Polaris customer took home a $12,000 lemon in 2011, and was told sayonara.
 

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Terrible situation your in. I'm selling my 800 as is with busted motor just to get out of it. I look at two forums, one for polaris, and one for Yamaha Viking. Polaris site full of issues, Yamaha site full of positive topics. Think thats the way i'm headed for a replacement for 800.
 

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Man, that realy stinks. I have been in the same situation with other products. I only wish I would have read this post about the poor CS at Polaris before buying my Ranger last week. CS is huge and it seems that Polaris may not care about the customer after the sale...
 

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Discussion Starter #6 (Edited)
Ok, so I broke down and told the dealer to go ahead and order the transmission today. It's going to be at least a week before I get the machine back, probably longer. Total bill is estimated to be around $2500. And this is with the dealer being very generous with the labor portion of the bill.

I asked the dealer if I could get a phone number or email address for someone in the warranty department, or just any department at all other than "customer support". They told me flat out that Polaris does not permit them to give out any number other than the customer support number. I don't know what the consequences are if they give me the number, but since the dealer has been courteous and helpful through all this -- not to mention they are what stands between me and a working machine right now -- I wasn't going to push the issue to hard. I told them to proceed with the repair.

I called Polaris customer support back and this time asked to speak to a supervisor right from the start. After a short wait I found myself talking to "Haylie", not just a supervisor, but allegedly the head of the customer support department. Encouraged by this turn of events, I proceeded to tell her my story, thinking I might actually get somewhere. But after 35 minutes on the phone, I got nowhere.

Haylie repeated informed me that customer support has no control over the warranty department's decision, and that she was also not permitted to give me any contact information for anyone in the warranty department. She couldn't tell me anything about why the warranty department denied the request, other than that the machine was too far out of warranty. I asked her about a goodwill warranty, since there are plenty of posts on the Internet about this machine having the exact same problem that I had, and that there is no reason that a $12,000 Ranger should be having the entire transmission replaced after less than three years.

I stressed to her that this recurring clutch issue was almost certainly what led to the the blown transmission, and at no point did she suggest that this was not the case. She acknowledged that the dealer said the machine was well kept and that there were no signs of abuse, but kept drilling home the same point: the warranty department has made their decision, there is no way you can talk to anyone about it, it sucks, but you just need to live with this.

I was quite effectively stonewalled. I asked Hailey to talk to her supervisor. She said she had no supervisor, and that she was the head of her department. I suggested that surely she had some kind of boss, but she told me in no uncertain terms that the conversation was not going to go past her. There was no way I was going to be able to talk to anyone who could actually make a decision about a goodwill warranty, or anyone at any level above her.

By the end of the conversation she was obviously flustered with me. I guess I was supposed to have given up a lot sooner. She started telling me how the conversation was going in circles and how she's told me everything she's going to tell me, and I just don't want to hear it. I suppose she's right. I actually don't want to hear that I'm going to have to eat a $2500 service bill on a $12,000 machine that has had constant issues, with no better excuse than "it's out of warranty".

She did give me one avenue of hope to pursue: If I wanted to present my case to Polaris, I could submit, in writing, a request for a goodwill warranty. Yes, in this technological age of phones, email, and faxes, my one long shot is to write a letter on a piece of paper to present my case. However, I cannot send this letter to anyone at Polaris directly, but instead I must take it to my dealer, and then the dealer can re-submit it along with another goodwill warranty request.

From the sound of her voice, I gathered that this would be a waste of time.

So, it looks like I am actually going to have to eat a $2500 repair bill for a new transmission.

The new transmission comes with a 30 day warranty. So if it goes out again in another six months, I get to pay for yet another transmission. Nobody can give me a guarantee that this is finally going to be fixed once and for all.

Note that this has been an ongoing issue for almost three years.

There are numerous posts around the web with people having the exact same problem with this machine, several of which have also stated that Polaris' "fix" did not work past the short term.

This machine is a lemon that should have never left the factory, and I'm far from the only one who bought one.

Polaris knows about the issue, but is abandoning customers who are still affected by it.
Corporate profits must have taken precedence.

Customer support is no more than a stonewalling department for grievances. They insulate the people making the decisions from having to answer for their decisions.

The whole thing is reprehensible.
 

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I have had tremendous experiences with Polaris products over the years, but would be spitting mad if I were in your shoes. The dealer could always step up and help make it right too. Perhaps you could offer to divide the cost in thirds? 1/3 Polaris, 1/3 dealer and 1/3 you. Not saying its right, just throwing out an idea.
 

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Mike,

I registered just to talk to you about your transmission. I honestly don't think the transmission is the problem and don't want to see you get taken! I frequent another forum and have only ever been to this forum a couple times and never registered until today.

My Diesel had a hard shifting issue and I spent money like you trying to get things right.

Check a couple things before letting them do anything to your transmission.

Change your fluid and see if there are any chunks or specs in the fluid. A bit of fuzz on the drain plug is normal and not a concern.

Check to see how things shift with the engine not running. Your post indicated that shifting was OK without the engine running. This leads back to the clutch.


The Diesel clutch is an odd unit, Polaris had to do their best to engage the clutch as soon as possible due to the limited RPM the diesel has so engagement isn't far above idle.

I bought a new clutch and like you after a while the hard shifting came back. I also lowered idle rpm which helped.

Mine would also would shift fine until warm and then shifting was impossible.

My take on this is that the belt gets warm and expands and the tight clearances in the clutch just cause it to grab.

The reason that I believe lowering the rpm solves the issue for a while is due to the clutch spring breaking in and causing engagement to be lower and lower.


I honestly hope the dealer hasn't tore into the transmission and they screwed it up!
However, at any rate, when the transmission is replaced, the issue will return as there isn't really anything in the transmission itself that can cause the issues you have!


Anyway the thing that solved my issue was the SVI Duraclutch.

The owner is a Polaris engineer and is one of the original developers of their snowmobiles and ATV's.

With the stock Polaris clutch, the clutch sheaves perform two things, they act as clutch and as transmission.

The Duraclutch separates these and has a centrifugal clutch for clutching with the belt constantly pinched and used only to transmit power.

It solved my hard shifting problems and gave my machine back to me.

Engagement is smooth now and I also have engine braking. This is the clutch the machine should have been made with.



I hate to say it, but I don't trust most dealers for much of anything. The ones I've dealt with try to blame things on an issue that can't cause a problem at all and don't look at things in a logical manner.

My Ranger is turboed and I take all liability for turboing it. However, in speaking with a couple dealers, the first thing they blamed the hard shifting on was the turbo or damage that may've been done by the power increase. It did not matter to them that the hard shift issue was prevalent before the turbo, that Polaris has issued recalls for hard shifting and they could not relate that the shift issue is RPM related. Could not make them understand that at idle, the turbo doesn't do a thing, doesn't make more power or anything.

I hate to say it, but I think you're in a similar issue. The dealer isn't looking at the situation correctly and hoping that changing the transmission will fix the problem when it's pretty clear the clutch is the problem.
 

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Discussion Starter #9
DaveB.inVa, thank you, thank you, thank you! I actually just registered over on PRC Forum this morning and posted a thread asking specifically to talk to you. I didn't check this thread first, as it seemed to have died.

You are a wizard on this machine. I've put together a whole web page documenting what I've been through and including a bunch of links from around the web where other people have had the same problem. You feature prominently in the links section:

My Polaris Ranger Nightmare

Let me have some time to digest everything you have said here. I haven't even had a chance to read it all yet, I wanted to reply and thank you for finding me first :)
 

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Discussion Starter #10
Damn... well that pretty much confirms my suspicions about the clutch issue leading to the transmission damage. And it confirms my even worse suspicion: that the problem is just going to return again in the future.

Part of me was really hoping that all the transmission damage had occurred during the period where I had the bad clutch (2011-2012), and that it just took a while to manifest.

It looks like I find myself in absolutely the worst case scenario: I am stuck with a $2500 repair bill, and have a machine that is impossible to drive because it is CERTAIN to fail again.

So I have a goddamn $15000 paperweight.

Must. Refrain. From. Outburst. Of. Profanity.

Ugh...

I couldn't find a price on the Duraclutch page. How much are they?

Thanks again for your post Dave. I think I've read everything you've written over the last three years regarding this Ranger while trying to solve my problems. You are a wizard in diagnosing this clutch issue. Polaris should be paying you a consulting fee.
 

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Discussion Starter #11
After reading the post from DaveB, and realizing that the shifting problem is almost certain to return, and that this new transmission is likely to suffer the same fate, I called the dealer again.

I explained the new information I had received, and got put on the phone with (I think) the head of the service department. I explained the situation very briefly to him and told him I would rather have him read the written account, as it would take too long to try to explain everything over the phone. Also I wanted him to read through some of the forum threads so he could see for himself how these fixes are not working, and how the transmission is not the underlying problem.

So anyway, I pointed him to the web page and he said he'd read it and contact Polaris and get it in their hands. I'm not getting my hopes up, but this is the farthest I've gotten yet.

Just for the record, I'd like to call attention to just how widespread this issue is through this link:

Polaris Ranger Diesel - RangerForums.net - Polaris Ranger Forum

Scroll down to the thread titled "Hard to shift -- idling problem?" and look at how many views it has received. Over 14,400 at this time. It is by far the most viewed thread on this sub-forum. While most of the the threads have views measured in the hundreds, and a handful have views in the low thousands, it is quite revealing that one thread has received so much attention.
 

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Trying SVI Duraclutch

I came across this forum from a internet search on "Polaris Diesel Hard Shifting." I too have this problem on my 2011 Diesel Ranger (bought new in 2012). Turning my idle down helped but did not solve my problem initially. The dealer replaced the clutch once after 3 attempts to "fix the problem." This worked for about 9mos but my last trip to the farm it started hard shifting again. By then I was considering just trading it in and taking the loss, but now I have new hope! The guys over at SVI were great and the new clutch should be installed by the time I get there next week for a test run. It shouldn't be this hard to get a $12000 machine to work POLARIS! Thank you guys so much for all your info and hopefully getting my Ranger back into working order shortly.
 

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Mike,

I registered just to talk to you about your transmission. I honestly don't think the transmission is the problem and don't want to see you get taken! I frequent another forum and have only ever been to this forum a couple times and never registered until today.

My Diesel had a hard shifting issue and I spent money like you trying to get things right.

Check a couple things before letting them do anything to your transmission.

Change your fluid and see if there are any chunks or specs in the fluid. A bit of fuzz on the drain plug is normal and not a concern.

Check to see how things shift with the engine not running. Your post indicated that shifting was OK without the engine running. This leads back to the clutch.


The Diesel clutch is an odd unit, Polaris had to do their best to engage the clutch as soon as possible due to the limited RPM the diesel has so engagement isn't far above idle.

I bought a new clutch and like you after a while the hard shifting came back. I also lowered idle rpm which helped.

Mine would also would shift fine until warm and then shifting was impossible.

My take on this is that the belt gets warm and expands and the tight clearances in the clutch just cause it to grab.

The reason that I believe lowering the rpm solves the issue for a while is due to the clutch spring breaking in and causing engagement to be lower and lower.


I honestly hope the dealer hasn't tore into the transmission and they screwed it up!
However, at any rate, when the transmission is replaced, the issue will return as there isn't really anything in the transmission itself that can cause the issues you have!


Anyway the thing that solved my issue was the SVI Duraclutch.

The owner is a Polaris engineer and is one of the original developers of their snowmobiles and ATV's.

With the stock Polaris clutch, the clutch sheaves perform two things, they act as clutch and as transmission.

The Duraclutch separates these and has a centrifugal clutch for clutching with the belt constantly pinched and used only to transmit power.

It solved my hard shifting problems and gave my machine back to me.

Engagement is smooth now and I also have engine braking. This is the clutch the machine should have been made with.



I hate to say it, but I don't trust most dealers for much of anything. The ones I've dealt with try to blame things on an issue that can't cause a problem at all and don't look at things in a logical manner.

My Ranger is turboed and I take all liability for turboing it. However, in speaking with a couple dealers, the first thing they blamed the hard shifting on was the turbo or damage that may've been done by the power increase. It did not matter to them that the hard shift issue was prevalent before the turbo, that Polaris has issued recalls for hard shifting and they could not relate that the shift issue is RPM related. Could not make them understand that at idle, the turbo doesn't do a thing, doesn't make more power or anything.

I hate to say it, but I think you're in a similar issue. The dealer isn't looking at the situation correctly and hoping that changing the transmission will fix the problem when it's pretty clear the clutch is the problem.

Thank you! For introducing me to DURACLUTCH. After applying much pressure to my dealer and educating myself and the dealer on the Polaris factory clutch problems relief is on the way. I was able to get Brent at DURACLUTCH to speak with the GM at the dealership. Dealer has agreed to install new DURACLUTCH's on my Ranger as well as my friends Ranger since we purchased them as a package. Should have Ranger's back to us within a few days.

Mark
 

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Discussion Starter #16 (Edited)
Thank you! For introducing me to DURACLUTCH. After applying much pressure to my dealer and educating myself and the dealer on the Polaris factory clutch problems relief is on the way. I was able to get Brent at DURACLUTCH to speak with the GM at the dealership. Dealer has agreed to install new DURACLUTCH's on my Ranger as well as my friends Ranger since we purchased them as a package. Should have Ranger's back to us within a few days.
So are you having to pay for the Duraclutch? Because on top of all the BULLSHIT I've put up with so far, I just paid a $2500 repair bill on a blown transmission, which the dealer said was a direct result of the fucked up clutch, and my Ranger STILL DOES NOT WORK.

I went back to the dealer after they put the new transmission in, drove the Ranger around for about 10 minutes in their parking lot, and THE PIECE OF SHIT WILL STILL NOT SHIFT. So now I'm being told that in addition to the $2500 bill for the new transmission, the Polaris factory clutch is fundamentally FUCKED, and the only solution is to fork out another $1500 for the Duraclutch. For a grand total of $4000+.

OVER FOUR THOUSAND DOLLARS for a FACTORY DEFECT.

I would LOVE to be part of a class action suit.

My Ranger has been at the dealer for so long I've lost count of the days. It must be close to a month now. THERE IS APPARENTLY NO SOLUTION EXCEPT TO FORK OUT $1500 for an aftermarket clutch, because Polaris' factory clutch is fundamentally BROKE!

This is BULLSHIT.

There is no way a company should be able to get away with this.

XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX

It's 4am and I'm losing sleep at night, waking up PISSED OFF AT BEING RIPPED OFF!

FOUR THOUSAND DOLLARS, AND NO END IN SIGHT TO THIS MONEY PIT!
 

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Discussion Starter #17
Looking back at the dates, it is almost TWO MONTHS now that the dealer has had the machine. The dealer has said repeatedly that there is no excuse for the transmission being blown. I've taken very good care of the Ranger. The dealer said it looks like it just rolled off the showroom floor.

The problem is that the "new" clutch that was installed under the recall is FUNDAMENTALLY DEFECTIVE, and does not disengage properly, so when you go to shift it, it's like shifting it while in motion -- which QUICKLY WEARS OUT A TRANSMISSION.

There is NO SOLUTION. Polaris is doing nothing. They are hiding behind warranty bullshit, saying it's not their problem. Like hell it's not their problem. The factory clutch is so defective that you CANNOT SHIFT THE RANGER WITHOUT TURNING IT OFF, and the ONLY solution is to buy a third party clutch for $1500. Not to mention the $2500 of transmission damage I'm paying for!!!

I am fucking livid over this.
 

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Discussion Starter #18
Another correction -- it's been over two months, going on THREE MONTHS that this Ranger has been at the dealer.

Will I ever get this thing back? Is it ever going to run properly? Am I ever going to have to stop sinking money into it? At what point does one stop dumping cash into a losing proposition. So far I'm down over $15,000 with NOTHING to show for it.

Let that sink in: Fifteen thousand dollars. And that's before the Duraclutch. After the Duraclutch it'll be $16,500. I could buy a NEW CAR for that kind of money. And I've got NOTHING -- NOTHING -- to show for it.

The dealer said I MIGHT be able to get $8000 if they tried to sell it for me. And that's if I wanted to rip someone off by selling a KNOWN DEFECTIVE machine.

HOW THE FUCK CAN A COMPANY GET AWAY WITH THIS!!!!!
 

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Discussion Starter #19
Glad I got all that off my chest. Sorry about the caps and the language... :p I kid you not that I've woken up several nights over the past couple months stewing about this, but I've generally been able to put it to the back of my mind and fall asleep again. Didn't happen tonight though. I've been up since 2am and it's 6am now, so I guess I'm up for the day.

I would advise anyone who has had this problem to have their transmission inspected. After some brainstorming with the mechanic who has been working on the Ranger and showing him how the Ranger becomes impossible to shift after a few minutes of driving it, he concluded that the clutch was not disengaging properly, and that trying to shift once it has reached this state would be equivalent to shifting it while it was moving.

This, of course, is bad, and is undoubtedly what led to the transmission damage. There is no other explanation. The mechanic said they rarely got any machines in that showed transmission damage like this, and on the occasions that they did, it was clear that they'd been run hard. But in my case, he said the machine looked like it had just rolled off the showroom floor. Yes, I took that good care of it. It has something like 150 hours and 600 miles on it. It was used for light farm work. There is nothing that I did that could explain why the transmission would be shot.

I was at the dealer last week, and after paying the $2500 bill for the new transmission, I drove the Ranger around the parking lot for a bit. Sure enough, after 10-15 minutes, it was almost impossible to shift again. Note: not ENTIRELY impossible, but very difficult. So I go back to the mechanic and show him, and he thinks about it for a bit, and says, yeah, the clutch is not disengaging, and if you tried to shift it right now, you'd be doing damage to the transmission. And yes, that is the likely reason that the transmission was shot.

So I ask him, what's the solution? He knows and I know that the Polaris clutch is the faulty component here, but it's a factory defective part. I ask him to contact Polaris and tell them that the clutch is sticking, and ask them how to fix it. He says he could do that, but that they're just going to tell him to do the same thing that's in the service manual, which he's already done.

I say, so then what? I mean, after Polaris tells him what to do, and he does it, and the clutch still sticks, then what happens?

He says that Polaris will probably say I need to buy a new clutch.

For real? It's not like the current clutch is damaged or worn. This is the NEW clutch we're talking about -- the one that was replaced under the Polaris recall. And now that this new clutch is sticking and causing transmission damage, Polaris is going to say I have to BUY another one. It's obvious to everyone that the factory clutch is defective. How can I be expected to fork out money for another defective clutch?

The mechanic is pretty much speechless. He then tells me that Polaris would never admit to there being a problem, so what can we do? He is as lost for an answer as I am.

There is no way to take factory parts from Polaris, stick them in this Ranger, and expect to have it work. I am sitting on a wad of paperwork documenting all of the exchanges between the dealer and Polaris trying to get them to acknowledge the problem, and Polaris responds to the dealer with the same one-liners that gave me: "OUT OF WARRANTY, WON'T FIX". The dealer said they went through all the channels the could trying to contact someone, ANYONE, at Polaris who could do something, and there is simply no way to get through to someone who will listen to the case and acknowledge that there is a problem here.

I asked him to just contact Polaris anyway, tell them the problem with the Ranger clutch, and see how they respond.

That was at least a week ago, and I haven't heard back yet.
 

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Discussion Starter #20 (Edited)
You're not going to believe what happened today. I finally got through to someone at the company. And not just another flunky.

I need to wait to see how things pan out over the next week or so before I elaborate.

Edit to update: Three days later... So far, no new news. It was encouraging to have finally gotten through to someone higher up than customer support, but nothing has come of it yet. I had to email a summary of the situation, and I have yet to receive a response. Not even an acknowledgement that it was received.
 
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