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Discussion Starter #1
Hello everyone.

I have a 2011 ranger ev and I bought x 2 48v packs with 3.5kw hours for a total of 7kw. Link Below. My question is: Do I need to reprogram the sevcon controller? I ran the 48v packs to a bus bar and runs good as long as I dont go too fast or up hills too fast. I am assuming I need more current. The cart will just shut off completely. If I reset the connector to the contactor, it runs fine until I drive too fast. I ordered another set for a total of 14kwh but wondering if I need to do anything else. I am using the charger supplied buy tech direct and the bms is in each pack. Do I need to reprogram sevcon? I have lights and the winch works so I am pulling the 12v from the DC to DC converter? Do I need to disconnect so I dont unbalance the lithium pack? Any help would be appreciated. I can send some photos if needed.

I put a heatsink on sevcon and did the upgrades to the fuse and connector to the contactor.

Thanks in advance.


 

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I do think that people should be aware of what they are buying. The units here are quoting capacity and power capability based on the original specifications. The detail does actually say the cells are at 65% capacity, but does not reflect that in any of the data, so a 66ah cell on a 65% capacity cell means its got 43Ah not 66Ah. A depleted capacity cell will also tend to have a greater imbalance with respect to the points where the cells go high voltage during charge, and the voltage drop off a cliff in use. This means that you can probably safely use less than the full available capacity, they will also be likely to have greater voltage drop under load.
The use of depleted cells can be a cost effective way of getting static storage (solar / off grid etc) but may not be good under traction loads.
So do your research, be careful what you buy and what expectations you have. Good usable, high discharge rate Li ion cells even used, dont tend to be cheap.
 

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I was looking at these too, but I was thinking about 4 of them. For that price, new LiFePO4 batteries aren’t far away.
 

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Hello,

The discharge rate of those packs are too low. 60A for continuous, and 120A Discharge for 2-3 seconds.

The controller can draw over 400A Peak current. (rated for over 600A), this why your packs getting into over current protection mode, and shutdown.

maybe suitable for low consumption solar system. not for vehicles.
 

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It looks like some of the single packs are an even better deal, and they’re still OBO. Some of the 60% options approach LA in cost, but I’m only considering 70%+. The fact that they come with an integrated BMS is really nice.
4 of these in parallel should be ok, right? If I got the 70%+ packs, would that be enough?
It seems strange that using half the 110hp Leaf pack would have trouble with a 30hp Ranger.
 

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The battery in the link, not come out from Nissan Leaf.
Maybe the Cells. the BMS who manage the Cells, for sure cannot handle 8KW motor continuously.

How guarantee to you that is really 70% of the capacity ?
4 Packs of 60A = 240A and 480A Pack, on on the paper can be suitable. not for sure.
 

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If you have a Li ion thats heavily depleted, and 60to 70% is a well depleted cell. They may be good for storage, ie solar and home off grid, but they are not good for traction use. Thats why they are not good in the original vehicles. These cells will not be able to discharge at high discharges needed for traction use. In the Ranger they had 350ah of lead not because of the storage, as about half of the Ah is unusable owing to too low a voltage, but big Ah means the cells can discharge at a decent rate, ie 300+ amps is no bid deal but not for the full 350 AH of the pack. In these depleted Li ion cells they are able to do about 60a as they stand and this will go down . In a good Li ion pack you can get away with a smaller than Lead pack because you can still have the range on about half the Lead Ah. New a Li Ion / not depleted capacity cell can discharge at 3cto 10 c (c relating to the Ah rating) so a 200Ah pack of good condition could discharge at 600 amps no problem. And since you can only use about half of a good lead acid pack 200Ah is going to give better range for a lot longer with less voltage drop off.
With these depleted capacity cells you should aim at well over 300Ah and expect the performance to get worse. The problem with depleted / lost capacity cells is they go high voltage earlier in the charge cycle, and low voltage earlier in discharge. WIthin a pack they also tend to do this in different ways so one cell may get worse faster than the rest, result the BMS will pick up on that cell and limit the pack usage. Result the whole pack is reduced in usage to the capabilities of the worst cell.

Overall if you are investing in time, effort and cash to convert to Li ion then do it properly, dont expect to do it on the cheap, as it will require more money spending on it and more down time , and not give the advantages that a decent system can give of greater range, better performance for longer, reduced maintenance and reduced weight.
Please please look at what you are buying, understand what it is you are buying, how it will perform, and dont just be tempted by the initial ads. A 65% depleted Nissan Lef cell is not a 66AH leaf cell but a degenerating 40+Ah cell with areduced operating voltage range.
 

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Discussion Starter #8
Well, I bought and additional 2 packs to make 4x48v packs for around 14kwh. It doesnt cut out any longer and moves pretty fast. I dont go out for long excursions just an hour or less a few times a week. I am hoping they will last a few years> I guess I will be the guinea pig. My question is balancing the packs in parallel. I have one charger hooked up for all 4 packs. 15 amps. Do I need anything else to make sure I get the most out of these 4 packs in parallel? Each pack has an BMS. I appreciate the input. I will let you know how it goes.
 

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I think your only choice is to wire them in parellel since they are 48v packs . What are you using for a SOC since the Polaris SOC I assume is inaccurate and reads 95-100%.
 

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I’m rooting for you Curt. Do you know what kind of range you’re getting compared to new LA? Or even just a general range number.

I thought the low voltage limit on these was actually close to the minimum voltage on the controller. It’s only 14 cells in series. Would the SOC meter be somewhat accurate on the low end?
Does that get into what Grumpyb was mentioning about properties changing due to cell aging? Where the lower voltage range shouldn’t be used?
 

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Discussion Starter #11
I think your only choice is to wire them in parellel since they are 48v packs . What are you using for a SOC since the Polaris SOC I assume is inaccurate and reads 95-100%.
Each pack has a meter and a breaker to take out of circuit and see the other pack voltages. I also bought a cheap meter to read the overall volts. Still waiting on that.
 

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Discussion Starter #12
I’m rooting for you Curt. Do you know what kind of range you’re getting compared to new LA? Or even just a general range number.

I thought the low voltage limit on these was actually close to the minimum voltage on the controller. It’s only 14 cells in series. Would the SOC meter be somewhat accurate on the low end?
Does that get into what Grumpyb was mentioning about properties changing due to cell aging? Where the lower voltage range shouldn’t be used?

Well, I went for about an Hour long ride on dirt hills and flat ground. I opened it up from time to time. I lost about 2 v on that trip. The packs come close to 58v when charged and packs trip I think around 46-48v. So looking at about 5 hours which isnt that good but I can make that work for my needs.I paid around $2600 for all 4 packs. I am more concerned about the overall time the packs will last.

I was going to try and return the packs but once I got all 4 hooked up and seen how fast it climbs hills and how nimble and responsive it was. I couldnt go back to regular batteries and I cant afford the voltronix option. So time will tell.


I sure love driving it, I have 5 acres with lots of hills and now she zips up these hills no problem. Lead acid just feels different, more clunky and slower if thats possible.
 

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Joining all of the packs into one large parallel pack will get them all balanced as a pack. It can take a day to get this fully sorted. If you put a current clamp on the cell connections you will see the different flow ina and out of the cell blocks as they equalise. The current will drop down, ut 24hrs will see it done. This is best done before the pack is charged. They should all be separately fused , that also means they can be isolated separately as well. But it will also mask any pack not performing well. I would suggest with these being known as less than perfect cells, to periodically split the packs,(remove the fuses) measure each block voltage leave them separated for 24 hrs and re measure the voltage. That would show if any cells were self discharging, and that pack can then be isolated/ repaired with another cell. It may help to be able to see the voltages in the separate blocks when under use, even with a simple volt meter on each block. You can then see how they work under load.
With all Li ion conversions, you need to ensure the cell blocks dont get covered in mud as you shouldnt just hose them down.
Its worthwhile filling the gaps in the floor at the outer front of the battery trays (I replace these completely in my conversions in the UK) and fill/ cover the gap between the side panels and the rear arch liner. Its surprising how much crud gets through that gap. Rigid PVC sheet is good for these filling pieces, self tapped into place with stainless steel screws.
 

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Discussion Starter #14
T
Joining all of the packs into one large parallel pack will get them all balanced as a pack. It can take a day to get this fully sorted. If you put a current clamp on the cell connections you will see the different flow ina and out of the cell blocks as they equalise. The current will drop down, ut 24hrs will see it done. This is best done before the pack is charged. They should all be separately fused , that also means they can be isolated separately as well. But it will also mask any pack not performing well. I would suggest with these being known as less than perfect cells, to periodically split the packs,(remove the fuses) measure each block voltage leave them separated for 24 hrs and re measure the voltage. That would show if any cells were self discharging, and that pack can then be isolated/ repaired with another cell. It may help to be able to see the voltages in the separate blocks when under use, even with a simple volt meter on each block. You can then see how they work under load.
With all Li ion conversions, you need to ensure the cell blocks dont get covered in mud as you shouldnt just hose them down.
Its worthwhile filling the gaps in the floor at the outer front of the battery trays (I replace these completely in my conversions in the UK) and fill/ cover the gap between the side panels and the rear arch liner. Its surprising how much crud gets through that gap. Rigid PVC sheet is good for these filling pieces, self tapped into place with stainless steel screws.


Thank you for the advice. I will check it out.
 

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This is a cheap shunt type Halls Effect meter that is very accurate. I have installed 3 of these and owners like them. It connects to the negative cable on the controller and measures both in and out voltage as charging or moving. It’s about 40.00.




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This is a cheap shunt type Halls Effect meter that is very accurate. I have installed 3 of these and owners like them. It connects to the negative cable on the controller and measures both in and out voltage as charging or moving. It’s about 40.00.




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Great thanks. I ordered it.
 

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It’s a little bit bigger OD but on some years it’s the only place to put it. I wouldn’t suggest it for replacing the Polaris SOC unless you just really want to


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